Curse

Servant of Kali · Jul 04, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I understand the pain... but i dont think solution is that easy.

Hmm... in a way i do like skill capping sometimes with each character. It gives a thrill, but yes it can be tedious. Maaaybe, once unlocked, add elite skill to the trainer? Which means that you can buy the elite skill at trainer for the price of 1k. Paying 1k is much easier than going to Perdition rock killing half of the island 3x before you finally get the boss you need.

Deadlyjunk · Jul 04, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

This is the best idea I've seen concerning the skill problems.
For what it's worth, you have my vote:
/signed

frickett · Jul 04, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Ok I guess I will put in my opinion.
First of all, I don't think that Elites should be available at the trainer, ever, period.
Secondly. I don't like having to pay 1K every time I want to unlock verata's gaze(for example). If i have a primary necro, and I change the secondary on each of my other characters to necro, that means i have spent 5k on that one skill. (I keep an open pvp slot.)
Thirdly, I dont think it is fair that if i roll a new character I can use verata's gaze (for example) without cost. This whole skill unlock dynamic seems to be shifted to the side of pvp.

I like the idea of a discount for previously unlocked skills. I think that is one solution, and I can't think of anything better.

Cirian · Jul 05, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Personally I don't like using the trainer to re-buy skills, because the number of skill points on a Factions character are balanced for buying new Factions skills, not all the old Prophecies ones as well.

I want a way to play a Factions character with some carry-over from having played Prophecies. Currently there's this horrible "Catch 22" situation where you can't play a new chapter class without permanent loss of old chapter skills. That's why I'm going for inheriting previously gathered skills when you Ascend.

There's around 750 skills in total at the moment. You can collect them all at a reasonable pace playing PvP characters, because the effort is a combined one. It remains a good system for collecting additional skills as new chapters come out as long as you combine accounts each time. New classes get access to all your old skills automatically too.

Now if you imagine taking a PvE Chapter 4 class and trying to do the same? Well, earning the insane number of skill points and plodding over 3 all-too-familiar continents is something I would expect other MMO's to inflict. It's already bad enough for me with 2 chapters, as I've flogged Tyria pretty hard. While I expect Guild Wars will address this problem sooner or later, I have better things to do with my time than endure a time-sink without reward.

Valyrian_Steel · Jul 05, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Im having major problems with my ele. Im out of skill points, I have gotten all skills possible from quests but now I need some skills for certain builds! This would help out immensely because my warrior has about 40 skill points right now, my monk around 70...

I don't think it should happen all at once though. Maybe something like once you ascend you get all your skills? That would keep the arena unbalancing problem at bay.

Tarun · Jul 05, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

/signed - fix it

Gorebrex · Jul 06, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Its not broken, peoples patience is. Youre not on a schedule, and dont have to have every skill in the game within a certain timeframe. I have a lvl 20 ascended Necro, and Im not even sure if she has ANY elites yet, which shows my level of concern, I think. Also, Ive seen somepeople posting that "If I get a Chapter 3 character, Ill have to run through chapters 1&2 again to get all skills!" I doubt that, as Im sure those skills will be ones you start with, and/or available through quests or (oh the horror)trainers. Just make some quest/farming runs, maybe sell some nice items you dont need, save up a few k, and buy your skills if you have to. Also, if you havent already, you could also run quests/missions you havent done yet.

TsunamiZ · Jul 06, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

/signed

Cirian · Jul 06, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Thanks for all your support, let's put this right

FalconDance · Jul 06, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

And when I deleted all 12 of my characters it was because GW has failed to make good on the ever delayed storage promise, kept PvP control of UW and FoW access, and done nothing about the Faction system they created which I hold eternally immoral. It is also because of the "improved challenge" of 12-20 enemy mobs that cannot be separated resulting in kill-1-rez -15 dp, kill-1-rez -30 dp, kill-1-rez -45dp, kill-1-rez -60dp, kill-1-rez -60dp, ..... format now considered requisite and normal.

While I'm not saying my warrior and my ranger have never died, they are exploring/questing deep within Kurzick and Luxon territory respectively with little difficulties -- with henches! Generally speaking, no dp (it has happened, but one death/resurrect usually is enough for me to figure out a better strategy -- and I'm generally the one doing the resurrecting!). No possiblity of death = no urgency or need to develop skills. Learn your profession, work out strategy (preferably ahead of time if possible). Otherwise, find some other game which offers rote play and does not challenge you in the least and have fun.

As for the 'immorality' of factions, once you get yourself to House du Heltzer or Cavalon through quests/missions (it's called storyline), the guild alliances who hold those posts offer players free ferry to the elite missions. So, in reality, there is NO restriction to the elite missions created by the factions system which prevents anyone who has earned the right (i.e. done the quests and missions to get there) to be in the outpost. If you'd bothered sticking around rather than /ragequit when reaching Arborstone and the perceived 'faction crap is bullshit', you'd have discovered that. Now, this may change if territory changes hands (don't see that happening for a while), but since strategically it makes no sense, I rather doubt it. Even though I will never likely be in an alliance which holds major (or minor) territory, I have already been to one of the elite missions.

Storage: apparently you're not quite up to date. For those who own Factions, a materials storage for crafting materials (which crowds most of my storage, I know) will soon be made available. Granted, it's not what many hoped for, but then again if people wouldn't horde everything they pick up or buy........

FoW, UW 'control' by PvP. Well, actually that is controlled by HoH. With all the PvPers, you'd think America would have favor more often, but <<shrugs>>. If a person were to base their PvE gaming experience on those two areas and the access/non-access therein, why bother buying and playing the game to begin with?

Quote:

However, given that ANet seems to be promoting underhand economies at this point for faction, items, titles, skills, etc. I do not understand why anyone who would still bother playing the game has any problem doing anything against the EULA or not to get anythying they want accomplished. GW's signals are so mixed, and their promisses so unkept, the only thing that seems to keep more millionairs from existing, having any skills they want, and doing anything they want, is the inability to steal mommy or daddy's credit card more often. That is how I feel after 9 months in the game.

And as stated, ANet is making good on their 'promises'.

Not real sure where you think people are being underhanded getting titles, etc. Yes, there are those individuals who think nothing of buying gold on eBay to shortcut.....but there are also people in real life who do underhanded and borderline illegal things every day as well. Doesn't make it right, but it's a fact. There are even people in real life who may be too impatient or unable to wait and save for a purchase but instead take out a loan for something NOW.

My avatars have all their armor (well, my Canthan monk is too young to have her top armor yet) and weapons. In fact, my ele has a *perfect* gold staff --- and it was a drop from one of my other girls, not an overpriced buy or paid for with eBay gold.

All it takes is patience, a bit of luck, good strategy and a lot of patience.

Oh, and less bitching, whining and moaning about what other peoplke have/do.

FalconDance · Jul 06, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Edit: Dbl post

Happy · Jul 06, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

/signed

(The PvP community has been sreaming for UAX/UAS for ages btw)

@The people saying but i like to work for it:

Well you can still develop your char and do the quests for it can you not? UAS or no, but just because you like to (have the time to) grind for skills doesn't mean we all do, so how would any of you be hurt by UAS just out of curiousity?

@The people claming that it RP incorrect:

That's funnay, Guild Wars is more of a Hack 'n Slash than it is a RPG, you might be playing the wrong game lads (and lasses).

Gorebrex · Jul 06, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy

/signed

(The PvP community has been sreaming for UAX/UAS for ages btw)

@The people saying but i like to work for it:

Well you can still develop your char and do the quests for it can you not? UAS or no, but just because you like to (have the time to) grind for skills doesn't mean we all do, so how would any of you be hurt by UAS just out of curiousity?

@The people claming that it RP incorrect:

That's funnay, Guild Wars is more of a Hack 'n Slash than it is a RPG, you might be playing the wrong game lads (and lasses).

I dont see how. According to Wikipedia, "Computer role-playing games (CRPGs), often shortened to simply (RPGs), are a type of computer and video games that use settings and game mechanics found in traditional role-playing games. The term "CRPG" is more often used when referring to titles made for personal computers, as opposed to console role-playing games (cRPGs). RPGs as a video game genre include a wide range of gameplay styles and engines. Gameplay elements strongly associated with RPGs, such as statistical character development, have been widely adapted to other video game genres." Sure got the RPG elements, thats for sure! And just HOW is it more hack and slash than, say, NWN or KOTOR?

Happy · Jul 07, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorebrex

I dont see how. According to Wikipedia, "Computer role-playing games (CRPGs), often shortened to simply (RPGs), are a type of computer and video games that use settings and game mechanics found in traditional role-playing games. The term "CRPG" is more often used when referring to titles made for personal computers, as opposed to console role-playing games (cRPGs). RPGs as a video game genre include a wide range of gameplay styles and engines. Gameplay elements strongly associated with RPGs, such as statistical character development, have been widely adapted to other video game genres." Sure got the RPG elements, thats for sure! And just HOW is it more hack and slash than, say, NWN or KOTOR?

Instanced pve zones with set monter spwans wit set skills that you can clear and an occasional colour coded boss, can you spell D I A B L O ? (wich was btw also originally marketed as an rpg).

For one KOTOR and NWN allow you to choose sides good/evil wich is a major roleplaying mechanic that is utterly absent in GW in KOTOR that is even based of decisions you make. NWN has only got real roleplaying if you start playing it on presistent world servers with real players, but even when played off line it brings a lot of the D&D choice making goodness to the pc. You even get to choose the answers to question you are given all by your self!

now hows that?
"screw you rurik i think you're gay i don't give a shit about ascalon, the charr never did anything to me i couldn't fix by myself!"
"what some dragon ass named glint wants me to save the world you say?"
"to bad tell him to send the avicara they pwn face harder! Now leave me alone i'm hunting for this silly bitch with a flute, she must die you see."
"Stop me? You with your lvl 10 wammo ass?"
*Rukik dies horribly to shatter enchant + emepathy from my level 3 kiting mesmer*

Guild Wars has none of this i don't get to even converse with npc's (hows that for no RP?) it basically "oh hello hero dude char invaded us, go kill!" "oh hello hero dude white mantle guys are evil, go kill!" "oh noes it's an undead freak, please kill it hero dude!" "oh noes some dead dude retuning to life go kill!" "Nice job hero dude! Killed 'em all! No go farm some instances for better gear!"

Sorry but Guild Wars doesn't even attempt to be a RP game, your character in the pve story line doesn't make 1 single descision by it self, thinking Guild Wars is a RPG is severly misguided at best.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 07, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

KOTOR, and NWN are both single player games. Therefore the Roleplay aspect is spoon fed to the player.

Guild Wars roleplay aspect is in the personal investment of time and personification of you avatar within the Guild Wars world.

If you want to be a generous and benificent player with one of your avatars - you "roleplay" it that way. If you want to be a quiet, morbid necromancer with your minions - you "rolepplay" it that way.

To allow the purchase of Elites from trainers would negate the necessity of characters after the first going into the following: Snake Dance, Mineral Springs, Perdition Rock (except for the rush to the docks).

Yes, I agree with non-elite skills being available for builds and new characters.

Keep Elites as something to be earned by the individual character. You don't need them to play the game - they are something that you should strive to attain. Unlike PvP - you do not have to have your new character ready to be thrown into the arena against organized opponents of unpredictable builds and strategies.

It makes absolutely no sense if you make a character with "X" primary profession - delete them - then later make "X" primary profession again and wonder why you don't have your Elites available. You have enough slots to make all but 3 of the primary profession with one account - that's leaving one spot available for PvP. If you can wait until the character slots become available - you can purchase 3 more slots and have your PvP slot and one of each primary profession to play with.

Anet - leave it the way it is! (And release the extra character slot for us to buy).

Cirian · Jul 08, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

KOTOR, and NWN are both single player games. Therefore the Roleplay aspect is spoon fed to the player.

That's not true, I bought NWN to play over a LAN with friends. It's got the 3rd edition AD&D rules at it's heart and was very open to modding and running your own campains. As for the single player = "spoon feeding", how can you say that about Morrowind or Oblivion?

The depth of roleplaying in Morrowind & Oblivion is far greater than that of Guild Wars. Guild Wars's emphasis is on tactics, and the skill system - remember that the major inspiration of GW is Magic: The Gathering, and that's how I approach it - a game about small scale tactical fantasy battles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Guild Wars roleplay aspect is in the personal investment of time and personification of you avatar within the Guild Wars world.

If you want to be a generous and benificent player with one of your avatars - you "roleplay" it that way. If you want to be a quiet, morbid necromancer with your minions - you "rolepplay" it that way.

The player base always shatters the illusion of "true" roleplaying in this game. Roleplaying is very casual in Guild Wars, as is evidenced by listening to the talk in any town and looking at the player names, and that's the way it's meant to be

To many, the game is no more than a glorified chat room and a place to hang out and have fun!

It's very informal and I like it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

To allow the purchase of Elites from trainers would negate the necessity of characters after the first going into the following: Snake Dance, Mineral Springs, Perdition Rock (except for the rush to the docks).

Yes, I agree with non-elite skills being available for builds and new characters.

Keep Elites as something to be earned by the individual character. You don't need them to play the game - they are something that you should strive to attain. Unlike PvP - you do not have to have your new character ready to be thrown into the arena against organized opponents of unpredictable builds and strategies.

It makes absolutely no sense if you make a character with "X" primary profession - delete them - then later make "X" primary profession again and wonder why you don't have your Elites available. You have enough slots to make all but 3 of the primary profession with one account - that's leaving one spot available for PvP. If you can wait until the character slots become available - you can purchase 3 more slots and have your PvP slot and one of each primary profession to play with.

Anet - leave it the way it is! (And release the extra character slot for us to buy).

Just to repeat myself, I'm not suggesting Elites on trainers, or non-Elites automatically transfering to a new L1 character. I'm proposing that your character inherits all your unlocked skills when you Ascend, equivalent to a pre-Ascended PvP character.

By sharing skills across all Ascended characters, characters will be able to collaborate at collecting skills, just as they can collaborate to collect money, materials and weapons for each other right now. Only then will PvE players have an even footing with PvP players to get at the proper meat of Guild Wars:

Not roleplaying.

Tactics.

Emik · Jul 20, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

#Whine #care...

If you don't like this game as it is go play another.
The main asset in all this is lazyness. Period en of story.
IF you really need a skill go acquire it and don't go whining about it in a 'oh i have to go all the way again' type of fashion.
Claiming a lvl 1 can't ascend? àok mayb e not.
I've seen as less as lvl 8's ascend so good luck with all the low levels in Augury that are going to nerf your playing style coz you were just to lazy to get a skill again.

SO VERY UNSIGNED